When does stockpiling talent disrupt player evaluation?

By
Updated: Monday, September 23, 2013 08:19 AM

Sam Hinkie and the 76ers have spent their offseason stockpiling young, underrated, cheap talent.  From the trade that brought in Tony Wroten for nothing, to the signing of Vander Blue, to even the drafting of Michael Carter-Williams, Hinkie used the assets he had to accumulate players who have more in the way of upside than they do realized potential.  All of them were relatively low (or virtually no) risks who could far exceed what Hinkie paid to acquire them.

But do they fit?

That’s not normally a question you would ask on a rebuilding team.  It really doesn’t matter long term how  Carter-Williams, Wroten, Blue, or Evan Turner fit together.  If you’re lucky, one of those players will turn into a legitimate starter and be a player that is part of your rebuild.  If you’re really lucky, you might get one legitimate starter and one good bench player.  Regardless, the long term fit isn’t too big of a concern because all 4 of them will not be playing together when the Sixers are ready to contend, and if one or two of them are on the Sixers roster in two years, there are enough open wing positions to put matching skill sets around them.

That, and forming an effective offense is not the goal for many Sixers fans.  In fact, an effective offense is counterproductive to many fans desire: to see the Sixers lose as many games as possible in the quest to get a true franchise player in next summers draft.

The problem comes when you’re trying to field lineup combinations that can play off of each other enough to get honest read on each of these prospects, particularly when you’re trying to project whether the game and style they were able to play in college can project to the NBA.

Below are the shooting percentages of some of the players who figure to either play prominent roles in the Sixers perimeter rotation or who we are looking to evaluate.  The stats are from their last season played, regardless of level (with the exception of Tony Wroten, because his playing time was so limited in Memphis that the sample size is too small to really be of much use).

Sixers guards - shooting

Player3pt%FG% - JumpersFG% - Catch and shootFG% - J's off Dribble
Evan Turner36.5%41.4%42.9%39.8%
Michael Carter-Williams29.2%28.1%28%26.2%
Tony Wroten16.1%17.9%11.5%21.4%
Vander Blue30.3%35.8%32.1%42.6%

Yes, Evan Turner made drastic improvements in his jump shot last year, most notably adding the corner three to his game, which is the main reason his catch and shoot percentages took such a huge jump up in terms of efficiency.  As for his shooting off the dribble: his ability to hit shots off the dribble has never been the problem with Evan Turner, it is how much of his offensive game is based around that skill.  It’s extremely difficult to build an efficient, high usage offensive player when that is his primary method of creating offense.

As you can see, Michael Carter-Williams and Vander Blue are, well, awful in almost all shooting metric, and Vander Blue, who looks like a marksman in comparison, did so on relatively small sample size, bouyed by a late season surge.  While good to see, whether or not he can sustain that increased efficiency is still a big question mark in his game.

The other problem with the collection of misfits is that they all, to varying degrees, like to use space created off of the pick and roll in order to generate offense for themselves and their teammates.  How they use the pick and roll might be different — whether it be to come off the edge and use the space to help them get into the lane, to use it to setup passing lanes, or to setup pull-up jump shots — but they all use it to some degree.

And one thing the pick and roll requires is floor space.  Lots and lots of floor space.  Typically this involves one perimeter player stationed in the corner to create room for the driver, and the other perimeter player in the elbow-extended area, not to mention the other big on the baseline to give his defender some hesitation when providing weakside help defense.  The existence of a perimeter player who is no threat in catch and shoot situations, at any of the other two perimeter stations, allows their defenders to cheat and provide help on the driver, limiting the amount of time he has to make his move and decreasing his effectiveness.

Having one perimeter player who is not a catch and shoot threat is a tenable situation, assuming he’s the ball dominant player initiating the offense off of the pick.  But, with the roster currently assmebled, there’s a very high likelihood that multiple perimeter players will be limited, or non-existant, catch and shoot threats.

For all of these players, the Sixers are hoping to be able to evaluate them to get a gauge on whether they should be in their long term plans.  However, with all of them requiring pick and rolls for a sizable portion of their offense, whether or not the Sixers will have the floor spacing needed to properly evaluate these young players will be a huge question mark.

That’s not to say that the decision to draft Michael Carter-Williams, trade for Tony Wroten, or sign Vander Blue was a mistake.  Considering how little Hinkie gave up to acquire them, they were all smart moves.  It would just be nice if more of the young, low risk, cheap assets the Sixers were able to acquire were legitimate catch and shoot threats, if for no other reason than to get a proper evaluation on whether or not what made these players successful collegiate players can translate to the NBA.

Share

Derek Bodner

Derek Bodner is a credentialed reporter covering the Philadelphia 76ers independently for DerekBodner.com. He is also a college basketball scout for DraftExpress.com, and an NBA contributor for The Ringer. Contact Information: derek.bodner@draftexpress.com / @DerekBodnerNBA

More Posts

  • ojr107

    Hi Derek,

    Congraguations on the Blog! Great layout and content.

    I agree, the lack of floor spacing is going to make it more difficult for MCW/Wroten, ect to develop thier offensive games. But, I wonder, if high risk, low reward players, that are really good jump shooters, exis.

    What makes guys like Wroten/MCW low risk/high reward type players is the fact that shooting is a skill that can be improved upon with enough repitition. Where, a guy who can shoot well, but lacks a quick first step off the dribble, is much less likely to learn how to explode off the dribble towards the basket.

    I know other skills can be improved upon other than shooting, but athletic ability( I know its a generic term) and ballhandling(whether a point guard or wing player) seem like two skills which are rarely improved upon.

    • Derek Bodner

      Thanks man, appreciate it.

      (Also, I recognize that handle, but I forget where. RealGM?)
      I do agree that there aren’t *that* many players who already have developed jump shots who also have a whole lot of unrealized potential. Even guys like. Michael Redd, who was a major threat from three for pretty much his entire career, was relatively inefficient in college from deep in college.

      There is a bit of me that doesn’t completely throw away the idea of having veterans even on a team like this, though. Pick the few pieces that you really have a keen eye on for the future, and put veterans around them so that they can make the most of their skill set and get the best read on your most imporant prospects. Having players who don’t fit together makes it very hard to effectively gauge ability.

      • ojr107

        Yeah, I used to post a lot on realgm, the last couple years I have been reading/posting on Depressed fan

        • Derek Bodner

          Ah, could have been either of those places then. Definitely recognized it right away, just forgot which one it was.

  • First, Mazel Tov on the new venue.

    Second, who do you think is ultimately the initiator on the pick-n-roll? MCW? Turner? It seems like it would be MCW getting into the lane and Turner out on the corner. If Turner is the shooting guard, who is the small forward?

    Also, is there any reasonable possibility that Thad will rediscover his three? That would solve a lot of problems, but I’m skeptical.

    Off-topic, and I’m sure you’ll be going into this in way more detail toward the end of the season, do you think Julius Randle is a franchise guy, or is it only Wiggins from this class?

    • Derek Bodner

      Hey Dweeb. Nice to see you over here.

      I think it would be MCW, for 3 reasons:
      1) I think he is more important in our future plans, so he gets preferential treatment.
      2) I think Turner’s a better catch and shoot player, by a sizable margin.
      3) I think MCW is better at creating scoring opportunities for his teammates off the pick and roll than Turner is.

      That being said, I do think MCW is going to struggle (big time) until he becomes more of a threat shooting off the dribble. But I’d rather start that adaptation process now.

      As for Randle, as you said, I’ll touch way more on that later. What I can say is that I do currently have Randle rated as my second prospect behind Wiggins. Whether his upside is franchise player or all-star, I’ll have a better idea in the coming months.

      • What I did notice during Summer League, which, I know you have to take it for what it’s worth, he did seem to have a pretty easy time getting into the lane without any legitimate shooter at all. So I think the raw tools to be a good p-n-r initiator are there. But as you say, he desperately needs to develop at least a decent shot off the dribble, at least enough where everyone can’t collapse on him.

        • Derek Bodner

          Well, defenses are so bad (and mainly disorganized) in summer league that I don’t really use that as too much of a barometer. But he definitely does have the raw tools.

          • True, the defense was generally terrible, but he seemed quick and aggressive into the lane and to be a pretty good passer, so there’s that.

            You think Wroten has a real role for the future, or is he mostly just a warm body to fill out the roster that was available on the cheap, and if he shows something, so much the better?

            • Derek Bodner

              I do think he has a chance. He actually has pretty underrated court vision, and uses his ability to get into the lane well, and he’s a better natural scorer than MCW. But his jump shot is even more of a hindrance. They’re going to put this player development staff to test, that’s for sure.

        • tk76

          Dweeb, I worry that the league is so stocked with quality PG’s right now that MCW will be absed this year. Also, sort of like with ET, I think the athletic defensive wing specialists (in the Tony Allen mold) will absolutely lock him down if he proves to be the Sixers most reliable weapon- otherwise they will be shutting down ET.

          The Sixers had 2 players who basically were ungaudable in many 1 on 1 situations in Thad and Jrue. They will really miss Jrue’s ability to draw the defenses attention- but i guess that is sort of the plan with regards to lottery balls.

  • It’s odd. This might be the first time I read something by Derek and thought, “ahhh, the Sixers probably know this already, and are working on it.”

    Faith is a hell of a drug.

    • Derek Bodner

      It’s a weird feeling, isn’t it?

  • tk76

    I think when the Sixers are investing so much in “player development” people, it is as much a focus on player evaluation as it is development. I agree that you can’t reliably translate performance on a lottery team to how players translate down the road on a quality team.

    That is why elite teams often are able to poach quality role players in the making from bad teams (something the Sixers used to be on the better side of.) But you’d think that a “player development” guy would have an equally good eye for how a player might develop after they get to work with them for a while. Sort of a shame they parted ways with DiLeo, who I had a lot of faith in that regard.

  • Xsago

    First of all Derek good luck with the site. It already looks very promising.

    As for the topic at hand i think this year is less about evaluation and more about development. The reason why i am not necessarily concerned with the lack of floor spacers is the fact that sometimes development and evaluation are on the opposite side of the spectrum.

    In a way i think if MCW, Wroten, Turner and everybody else can figure out to survive without any floor spacing, than it will be that much easier for them in the future when the team will have legitimate shooters on the wings. The whole situation reminds me of Durant’s rookie season when he was forced to play as a SG in order to improve his ball handling, as well as forcing him to deal with even more speed than he would need to. Lebron’s situation was similar. The Magic might do something similar with Oladipo this year, playing him at PG. Sometimes you need to push young players and ask the world from them to ultimately help them and make them better.

    The only concern i have with the approach is that it usually works with high-character guys with incredible work ethic. It’s up to MCW, Wroten and the others to show if they have what it takes.

    • Derek Bodner

      Well, I think how much of it is about evaluation vs development depends on the player. Guys like Blue and Turner, evaluation is definitely going to be a big part of it. And coming into the 2014 draft I think they’d like to know what they have in MCW, not so much for their first pick (which should always be BPA), but how it impacts the Pelicans pick.

      My worry is that not having the floor spacing will take them out of their element and force them into a role they’re neither familiar with nor comfortable with. Bad habits can be picked up for such young players, and I don’t want to push that.

  • PhillyFastBreak

    Derek, I’ve always enjoyed your work. Looking forward to the site providing a forum for additional insight from you.

    Any other guys currently on the roster that might step up and fill that catch-and-shoot? Wyatt has always been a decent outside shooter but having watched him pretty extensively at Temple, he seems to also fit the mold of ‘ball-in-hand’ guys you touched on here. James Anderson perhaps?

    • Derek Bodner

      Thanks. Appreciate it.

      I think both Wyatt and Anderson can provide that to some degree. I’m still not convinced Wyatt is a regular NBA player, but if he shows to be one, that would help the floor spacing issue. Anderson could see a bigger role here than he normally would just for that very reason.